Wednesday, September 2, 2009

Nutrilite Nutriscam Vitamins Used to Finance Amway Cult Closed Market Swindle


Recently I've had a Amway Apologist leave a comment on another of my blogs whereby he (or she) made a enthusiastic assessment of Amway's Nutrilite vitamins (all as if to represent that they were somehow the best vitamins available). This obviously deluded Amway cult adherent then mentioned the name a foreign soccer sports star by the name of 'Ronaldo' who supposedly endorses Nutrilite. Obviously I must 'school' this anonymous commenter and describe to my reading audience exactly how Nutri-Scam/Nutrilite operates.

Nutrti-scam is actually much older than the 'American Way' itself; 'Amway' collectively is merely an extension of an earlier premeditated 'closed market swindle,' Nutrilite, began by Carl Rehnborg in association with Mytinger and Casselberry. The United States authorites sought to close down what they obviously deduced was a 'snake oil-like' huckster fraud, which in the final analysis put Rehnborg and his scheming business partners out of business. Regrettably, the authorities failed to prevent the cultic initiators (Devos-Van Andel) of the fledgling 'American Way' cult (now collectively known as 'Amway') from taking possession of 'Nutrilite.' Amway now carries on the same exact carefully disguised swindle first operated by Rehnborg. Nutri-Scam therefore was grandfather to that evil step-son: 'Amway.' Do you follow the logic? To more fully understand Nutrilite, Rehnborg and how the Amway cult began, read David Brear's article: Mother of Mercy, Could this be the end of Amway?

Nutrilite vitamins have only one market: primarily the cultic adherents of the Amway closed market swindle, the 'independent business owners,' prosperity believing adherents who contribute handsomely to the Amway cultic initiator's private wealth, ill gotten gain, much of it in exchange for a huckster-like, unremarkable health supplement known as Double X. Amway Cult initiates are taught to believe this Rehnborg 'concoction' has no peer, being associated with renown sports figures (like the former World's fastest man or a soccer star that most people in the United States have never heard of). The truth may be a hard 'pill' to swallow for the Amway 'true believers,' but there are any number of other vitamin supplements which exceed the potency of of these otherwise anemic snake oil compressions that are marketed as vitamins. These other products significantly do not sell for Amway's extortionate prices. When these 'Double Cross' beans are tossed on the ground, they do not grow a bean stalk up to the giant's golden egg laying goose at the top of the bean-stalk.

Amway operates a 'closed market swindle' whereby the buying 'distributors' exclude all 'negative' (normally marketed products) from their homes. 'Nutrilite' (Nutri-Scam) therefore plays a major part in how Amway carries their 'advanced fee swindle' forward. The cost to manufacture these truly unremarkable pellets is incredibly small, nearly nominal, allowing the Devos, Van Andel American Way cult initiators to extract an incredible amount of money from their own supposed salespeople, all who are in actuality the only 'market' for these extortionately priced ($50 - $70) items 'IBOs' are taught to buy in a veritable 'pay to play' game of greed.

I must bring to reader's minds the relatively small swindle of Bernie Madoff, which in the end falls short of the utter fleecing the Amway 'true believers' who are flim-flamed in huckster fashion into buying an overpriced, unremarkable health supplement, all while these duped 'winners' are then further fleeced in a secondary swindle known as the 'tool and function' business operated by criminogenic kingpins, 'mafia-like' families.

Have you been exposed to the Amway menace in some way, shape, fashion, or form? Has their been a 'business cult' meeting in the midst of your neighborhood? Have you received the infamous 'curiosity invite?' Have you been exposed to 'pro-sumer' psychobabble? Be forewarned therefore that these people are out to 'rape' (in the end) the finances of the unwary in what author David Brear describes as the financial holocaust, and sadly, many fall for the con represented as supposed legitimate business. Indeed there exist Amway apologists like David Steadson (IBOFB), Scott Johnson (Tex), and Bridgett Baron (Bridgett); all of whom commit the worst type of psychotic crime: knowing the truth of the Amway swindle and promoting it further in what becomes 'intent to defraud' others into joining. They are obviously narcisticly addled con men who conveniently disregard the historic Amway 'financial holocaust' already played out against former and now long gone Amway true believers.
Now you really know.
You can avoid making the mistake many former adherants--the taken--can attest is an insidious premeditated swindle, all now operating their American Way scam Worldwide. Word to the wise. For more information click here. qiac September 2009

Videos Related to this Post:



40 comments:

Joecool said...

Whenever I get into debates with the Amway apologists, I always cite the incredible prices that Amway charges for vitamins. For example, Double X retail is $78.

Apologists will cry that IBO cost is only about $52. I point out that the idea is to sell these items for a profit. Then the apologists predictably will talk about the "quality" of nutrilite products, but fail to show an unbiased report to confirm the superior quality.

Lastly, I question whether the cost justifies the alleged quality. I have confirmed through a reliable source that Amway sells double X to their employees for $10or $12.

So what's the truth? The IBOs probably cannot handle the truth.

quixtarisacult said...

Most married couples join Amway as a pair; therefore, multiply the cost of these nutriscam vitamins X2 if both take them. It doesn't take a mathematical genious to realize that if that was all they bought each month, then that would put an incredible amount of 'closed market swindled' cash into the cult initiators treasure chest and it is this one particular aspect of their swindle that has--more than anything else--propelled these Devos/Van Andel swindlers (supposedly legit businessmen) onto a list of the world's riches men.

Anonymous said...

Actually the daily multivitamin is $10 and that is a three month supply.

quixtarisacult said...

anonymous...

'Double-cross'--snake oil equivalent--fronts the Nutri-scam swindle; while 'defacto Amway slaves' victimize themselves and 'believe' 'am-mythology.' These less than erstwhile 'economic slaves' then become--not the 'Amway over achievers,'--but the 'Amway over-swindled;' the gullible, the taken, all fodder for the continuing Amway 'financial holocaust.'

(Oh, I would like to mention that I reserve the right not to publish 'anonymous' comments, and urge interested readers to choose a handled, mostly to differentiate ones self from so many other hundreds of commenters. Reminds me of Scientology and tactics used by adherants of their despicable cult.)

Carl Hodge said...

I’m not sure why you have such a seething hatred for Amway/Quixtar but this is your blog and you are entitled to your opinion. I have joined Amway/Quixtar twice and have decided not to renew. There will never be a third time. There have been people who have been very successful in the Amway business. However, the odds are against the average person. This information is disclosed in the materials that are supposed to be distributed with the Sales and Marketing plan. The reality, this business is only as good as the IBO's work ethic, and ability to network. If you have no friends, or your family wants nothing to do with Amway (like mine) you are going to have to work really hard to create a network. I would go as far to say that if you have no friends do not bother because you have missed something big in life that has caused you to repel people from you and this will probably repel your would be down line. However, should you decide to go forward understand creating a network means contacting people everywhere you go normally as well as purposefully going out to contact at malls, etc. This is not natural for most people, which is why you are recommended and highly encouraged to read books and listen to CD's on marketing, networking, cold contacting, and selling. In my opinion, the books, and CD's are decent in content; however, your relationship with your sponsor and your sponsors experience are what will help you succeed. In my case I was put into my sponsors business by his sponsors, sponsor. It turned out that the guy who started us was an Emerald after 15 years in the business. Most people who are in that long have a better success rate. I commend him for his persistence and he will probably succeed but his process seemed to be just doing things over and over again and eventually you will find the people required to grow your business. I differed in the mindset that I wanted to be in business with people like me. The problem with that is I would attract people who were skeptical of my up line and the business model because I did not totally believe in my up line.

Yes the products are high priced. Yes your up line is going to say you have to buy 100% of your products from your business if you want to be successful. Yes your upline is going to tell you that you need to read and listen to CD's every day, and your upline is going to tell you that you need to attend all functions. That is their system. I told my upline I would switch over to Amway products after I used my brand X because I was not made of money (hence why we joined in the first place). However, if you are going to sell a product but not use it would be a conflict in itself. Anyone who has worked for a company that makes a good can relate. You don't drink Pepsi if you work for Coke. You don’t use a Mac if you work for Windows, you don’t bank with Bank of America if you work for Chase.
I guess to wrap up, I think the only way you can succeed in this business is to have blind faith, never questioning the training methods, and to have a great relationship with your sponsor or mentor. If you are reading this blog this business is not for you because you are doubting already. How do I know? Because I was in your shoes and researched these blogs after I was shown the plan. If you feel like you really want your own business then do something on your own. Yes it takes money, yes there is risk. However, the odds are actually in your favor when starting a traditional business because there is a 10 % chance you will succeed, while "Amway/Quixtar publishes the following data (available at http://www.thisbiznow.com/quixtar/ibo_statistics.html) "the following are approximate percentages of Direct Fulfillment IBOs of record in North America who achieved the illustrated levels of success in the calendar year ending August 31, 2005: Diamond .0120%; Emerald .0320%; Q-12 Platinum .1683%."

quixtarisacult said...

Carl...

You have decided to quit the business and have your own ideas why it wasn't a 'good fit' for you, but you demonstrate a strong regard for the pursuit of the American 'Way' dream none the less.

The percentage odds of obtaining 'financial freedom' in Amway is incredibly dismall as Amway's own information can attest. Of course there are 'exceptions, all of which serve to keep the others in and struggling to build what I consider to be someone else's business (Amway, Tool Kingpins), one in which believers some how hope to be included at some future time; sort of like the Italian mob making a new 'made man.' This is what makes Amway most certainly an advanced fee fraud.

Carl, I suppose that over time I find myself not necessarily hating Amway as much as you might think. For those who see through the affair and not join, just great. Likewise, for those who see their way to leave what for them will be a losing affair and save themselves the trouble.

Now, on the other hand, for all those that advocate and believe in the business and basically knowing the truth decide to stay in; well, they get what they get. They make their bed and will lay down in it--good or bad. If they lose, they must bed down in their loses. If they win? Well, some win at gambling as well. (Of course it has been shown that the odds of winning at roulette and the like are much higher than winning at the Amway game of greed).

qiac

B W said...

Good God the amount of hatred some seem to have for Amway Global. but then again this is a site thats totally against it and all it stands for. well allow me to not repeat things that are obviously already known by those who read the blogs and those who where involved and got out in dismay. i myself know of a few who did. but let me get to my point to help out any amway cult ish. if your dont already know i am an IBO as of now. and while im fresh in this business im not noob to the idea of pyramid schemes. and i am well aware that there are some out there more concerned with they own growth and are just petty marketing theives praying on the hopes and dreams of new ibos. but you know what. there are bad seeds in every corporation. every job you get into. look where greed got our economy today. do i use 100% amway products. NO. i use most of them as they come along. have a spent an extravagant amount of money and time. NO. to tell you all the truth im probably one of the more honest and helpful people in this business. as an IBO you are your own boss. you choose what you do. your work ethic etc.. but ill tell you what.. the books have helped me personally. the cds have encouraged me to believe that anything is possible. do i sit and fantasize about a big ass house and a boat and all that stuff. NO. im a regular guy thats JOINED this business and im going to have my own network of people that i will help out and give a damm. call me devils advocate. in a room full of snakes im not mouse. i am the guy with the sawed off shotty. is it cult like. thats up to you. has it helped many people find faith yes. so if its anything its a different door other then what most people have available. im not here to defend amway. they got billions and lawyers for that. im not here to show them my paycheck. im going to operate a successful business they way they should have. and one last thing... im sure most of you know swindlers and jerks at your own job. people out to get you. if you have been part of amway and happended to get into a BAD team with horrible upline and so forth. look out for me in the near future. god bless to everyone cause this world is really tough and its sad that all you can do is bad mouth a company. prices high... depends what your compare em to. so called quality . once again.. WHO NOT MAKIN BULL THESE DAYS. there was a time HONDA was a great car last for ever... now the trans goes seemingly out of no where so IBOS or potential IBOS .. i have this great piece of advice for you.. USE your instincs. and trust me there are quite a few GOOD teams not out to pull the wool over your eyes. The business can work for you. you can make a decent part time income. even if you made 40 bucks.. thats 4o more then what you had no matter what.

quixtarisacult said...

Translation is needed for the above comment. Please, would someone interpret?

Anonymous said...

I'm in a relationship a guy involved in an Amway corporation. He is convinced that no one is making money off of his motivational tools, and that one day this will make him rich. I like that its made him more positive and into personal growth, but me being skeptical and asking questions has made him call me a DREAM STEALER. He actually comes to tears (because he credits the organization for improving his life) when he talks about his experiences with Amway. I also know for a fact he spends LOTS of money on functions and tools and the products, but as of yet doesn't make any money from it. I honestly don't know how to deal with this :( Trolling these sites for advice I guess... but it all seems rather hopeless.

Kumar said...

everything that has to do with money can be drawn as a ponzi-scheme. any one who works for retail knows this. you've got a small group of people at the top of the company making the Big $$$ while You rot away at the bottom making minimum wage , your salary job is the same only you get paid a bit more. also when was the last time you got paid for recommending some name brand good or service? i.e. celluar service, laundry detergent, toothpaste. did your grocer give you a discount for the referal? how about a commission?

Ever hear of franchises? you pay money to a HUGE company to operate under their name and sell their products and services. where have we seen this before? 7-11, gas stations, Dunkin Donuts, Subway, Quizno's, Pro Activ kiosks at the mall, etc....

Tom said...

I'm in my early 50's, and I have signed up as a new IBO (again) after a twenty-year hiatus. I've been doing a fair bit of searching on the web for comments on all sides about this business. Generally speaking, I appreciate the negative comments more than the positive; this is because the negative comments tend to be more honest, while the positive comments tend to be mere cheerleading. This is not universally true, however.

I have had many years since my prior involvement to reflect on the business; and I reached a conclusion that is ironically startling: this business is about selling, and the reason it took a sharp left turn into the Twilight Zone is that -- whether out of myopia or by design -- people marketed it as a sponsoring-focused "get-rich-quick" scheme. Considering the depth and breadth of the corruption, it is amazing that the company has not only survived but has flourished. I think that, in itself, says something; but that's a digression.

In my searching, I actually found an IBO who had discovered the same thing. This man owns several businesses, and he treats this one the same way he treats the others. He is heavily into retail and is selective about who he sponsors. His opinion, at least as expressed, was not as detailed as mine; he merely opined that many people appeared to have forgotten that the business is about selling.

I have run the numbers, and 75 customers buying Double X will make you more than $30,000 a year, which is pretty good for a supplemental income. That meaty a customer-base in Nutrilite may be unrealistic -- we'll see -- but there are other products to sell; and, believe it or not, there is some brand-loyalty out there among retail customers.

My personal rule, provisionally, is to not sponsor anyone until I'm at 1500 PV. Until I'm making that kind of income, I don't think I will have mastered retailing; and, since I believe that this business is fundamentally a retail business, until I've reached that point I don't have any business trying to mentor someone else.

In addition, I plan to view and market the products honestly. I will give the company's claims the benefit of the doubt; but I will not try to make someone buy something they don't want. I view my role as a salesperson as one to inform and supply. If someone doesn't want my product, that's their affair. Everyone has an individual set of values; one person would never pay $75 for vitamins but would pay $75 for a ticket to a sporting event, while another would do the opposite.

I envision that this approach to the business will require much more work than the scammers tell you -- or used to tell you -- is necessary to succeed as a distributor. I will have to get to know the products themselves -- to really know them -- and learn how to sell, though without being a lying, manipulative snake. I believe it can be done.

I also believe that the reason more people don't succeed in this business is, primarily, an unwillingness to invest themselves, and secondarily deception by their uplines. It is the temptation to reap rewards without working for them that makes them susceptible to seduction. That doesn't make the sins of their seducers any less contemptible, or the betrayal they feel less painful; but it does mean that the cause for that pain is not one-sided. There is a natural relationship between work and reward, and people who set out to beat the system are inviting failure.

I'm sure people with more experience than I have will have things to say in response; and I welcome all such comments, negative though they may be.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the above post. How do we interpret some of this writing? Some strings of it are great then they drive over the cliff....

roberta said...

IF what you say is true about the "snake oil" type product WHY would the Amway corporation GIVE their Nutrilite product to the watchdog group ConsumerLab .com for testing. AND when the products are tested by them the results have been that the product label is accurate...

For some reason you just wreak of sourness from a back experience or something... not sure why the witch hunt but hopefully you will get over it some day. Makes me sad to think of all the wasted effort you are using just because something didn't work out for you.

IF you were misled I feel badly, that is NOT something a sponsor should do. But most folks are either just not cut out to work in a Direct Sales company (they really don't appreciate or understand it) OR (& this one is most prevalent) they were NOT willing to put in the effort it takes to be successful.

Anonymous said...

As a lit major first and foremost before anything I must state that you do not ever at anytime during this piece MAKE A STATEMENT. You constantly demean and degrade and repeat that Amway is a scam Nurtilite is a scam you state that you are going to explain how the scam works...and you never do. And quite frankly anyone who knows anything about alternative health knows that pills such as these are expensive. It is preventative medicine. If you have kidney failure trust me you will spend a heck of a lot more one getting well than you would have on staying well.

Grace said...

why must u take so much effort to find faults in something?
you guys are weird.
like seriously...
weird.
please do find something worthwhile to do.

Ahmad said...

I'll say one thing- those who talk shit on Amway are the same people who talk shit on their jobs and any other endeavor they have failed in. Yes- I am an IBO. No- I am not a diamond. I am actually fairly new in building the business. But guess what- I'm at the point in my business where MOST people will quit/go inactive.

For the first few months I had tremendous success with my A and B List- on average my bonus checks are $350 not including retail checks. But now- I'm out in the malls and walmarts contacting. Some days I muster up the courage and talk to some people and get some numbers and other days I just fail. Most people will quit contacting at this point because it can be such a mind-fuck. I on the other hand am staying consistent and sponsoring people I contacted.

Because I'm contacting PEOPLE my business will grow and I'll be part of the minority.

Why the statistics make amway look so bad:

60% quit even before buying a product or attempting to sell one in the first 3 months. Um- that's because they thing they're gonna get rich overnight. Not gonna happen.

30% sponsor a few people and retail. Give up on contacting but continue as iBo's retailing and sometimes sponsoring making between 100-800 USD per month.

5% Will Quit before six months and get their money back.

5% actually have the courage to go out and build the business. If you do the work, you will grow.

As far as Double X is concerned- I have 12 customers who buy monthly AT retail price. Yes it sells and yes customers love it.

You suck for being a quitter.

Anonymous said...

loooool you kids are funny

Anonymous said...

i wanna say you have no idea what your talking about and if you so busy busting Amway what are you doing with your life? All i heard in high school from my teachers was, its a scam you never make it. So I joined when I was 18 my 12th grade year and in college my professor said its a scam so i cash my check and put all the cash on his desk the man was speechless. I got my degree and retired.

quixtarisacult said...

What am I doing with my life? Enjoying it. Not being fleeced like many other er, cough cough, bidnizmen who read and comment on this blog. Isn't that against the rules by the way?

Anonymous said...

Regardless, It's undeniable the effects Nutrilite has on the human body. I'm a very active, supplmented personal trainer, and haven't found anything that makes me feel better.

Myself, along with my old supplier make a fortune selling these products to clientele. Ultimately, I make money, I am extrememly fit, and can't help but promote the benefits.

Your argument is that it doesn't work. Yeah, well, neither does Wii Fit. Your opinion is heavily uneducated.

quixtarisacult said...

anonymous...

At least I am being fair in posting your comment. Belief in the powers of pills and potions isn't uncommon. You take three different colored pills a couple times a day, which is very reinforcing. You believe they work and therefore they work. Placebos work. Aspirin works, and I suppose vitamins work to some degree.

In a product based pyramid scheme, the products are unimportant, except for their price. Former distributors in Amway brought suit against Amway alleging, truthfully I might add, that the Amway products were priced to be unsalable. Amway agreed to settle the dispute out of court to the tune of over 100 million dollars. A small price to pay to bottle up this ugly truth.

Nutrilite vitamins are the flagship product of the Amway cult initiators, who lifted the idea from the late Carl Rehnborg with whom the government was prepared to roll up as a scheme. Now isn't it time for the DOJ to roll up this current Amway Mob?

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone believe you? Are you a physician? Let's get real, physicians and the American Medical Association have been selling the American people "snake-oil" and dreams of a cure, since the medical INDUSTRY began. How many drugs have cost someone their life. OOPS! Maybe Nutrilite isn't a cure all but neither is our medical "professionals". The only difference I see is that physicians have a LICENCE to steal and murder. Bottom line, don't like it? Don't but it. I see that the blogger must "approve" all comments. That means no one will see this comment.

quixtarisacult said...

Anonymous... Hey I posted your comment. I have no problems with those who hold a different view of things. I really have no problem with Nutrilite vitamin quality; they are on par with vitamins that sell for around $5 everday. Quality is not really the issue being raised, but the price is!

Take some common plant materials, boil them, and compress them into 'vitamin' capsules and sell these magic beans for upwards of $70 for a 30 day supply. That's the issue. They are priced to be basically unsellable. The supposed distributors themselves are the primary customers in this 'closed market swindle.' And while the product costs relatively little to produce in mass, the price indicates a money extracting scheme.

Anonymous said...

Its either something works for you or not. If it doesn't get out of it, it works for you stay in it. We have all been blessed with brains to discern whether something is good or bad. Yes you are opinionated but lets leave each individual to discern for himself/herself. You are not perfect yourself and not everything you do is worthit in the eyes of others so get over yourself and leave those who see it as a lucritive business to go ahead and do it.

quixtarisacult said...

anonymous...I have been somewhat ambivalent about Amway of late. If someone really wants to be burned by Amway, who am I to stop them? They have been forewarned. The information about MLM frauds like Amway is readily available. If people want to hide their head in the sand like an ostrich and believe all that Ambots say about Amway, well, isn't it their money going in the rat hole?

Have you ever read the USA Today article Multilevel marketing or 'pyramid?' Sales people find it hard to earn much? I ask this because I've noticed that the mainstream press sometimes does a relatively good job of describing MLM 'opportunities' as the incredible 'long shot' that it really is.

Anonymous said...

Kochi, Aug. 6:

The police on Friday carried out searches at nine Amway centres in three districts in Kerala as part of the ongoing drive against money chain activities and cheating through multi-level marketing campaigns.

The team under Mr J. Jayanath, Superintendent of Police, Wayanad, searched the head office of the Amway at Kochi and also its office at Kottayam. The raids were also conducted in Thiruvananthapuram, Kollam, Thrissur, Kozhikode and Palakkad.

The police said that cases had been registered against the company at Kannur, Wayanad, and Thrissur following complaints of cheating.

Meanwhile, Amway in a statement said the police action has come as ‘rude shock' and surprise. A fair investigation demands that the company be notified about the nature of complaint received for such a sweeping inquiry, it said.

The multi-level marketing and direct selling company stated that it had been receiving complaints from distributors over the past one month that they were being called to police stations and being ‘harassed' to give complaints against the company. This is another step in the direction of ‘high handedness' of some police officials, the statement said.

quixtarisacult said...

anonymous... you seem to avoid the issues I raise. You sidetrack the back and forth with trivial matters. Do you believe it is such a trivial matter to have one's funds extracted by a carefully contrived scheme; or simply believe 'you get what you pay for.' Hey, Jack of Bean stock fame got what he paid for. For you Amway people, that was a fairy tale!

Weijie said...

Strange. When I do compare apple for apple products between nutrilite and x-brands at retail prices, nutrilite almost always end up being cheaper.

Amway is a business, and profit is not a foreign concept for businesses. earnings profits is fine, profiteering is not.

If you're not happy with the service provided to you at retail price, sign up and get it at distributor price yourself.

FYI, strangely 93 over different governments see nothing wrong with Amway and allowed Amway to operate in their country. But well, I guess you guys are way smarter than all 93 governements. =)

It was a fun read anyway to know what misconceptions people in the scam business like to spin out. =)

quixtarisacult said...

Weijie...

Some Governments are waking up to the Amway menace. Courts have also correctly determined how MLM scammers have no real customers. Even here in the U.S. Amway has settled Pyramid Scheme allegations out of court to the tune of millions of dollars.

Of course, your comments are welcome. You basically repeat Amway's best argument for legitimacy, and that is the fact that they haven't been shut down. That really isn't a good argument to make to prospective initiates. Amway operates like the mafia, and as far as I can determine, the mafia hasn't been shut down either.

Weijie said...

I appreciate your reply as well.

And I do agree and recognize that there are many scams out there that take the front of a Mlm (among other things..) which you pointed out, have no customers and usually can only be sustained if there were perpetual expansion/recruitment of new members, etc.

And such companies can crumble easily when subject to a simple audit.

However, there are many Mlm companies that are actually listed companies and are constantly subject to external audits and if such models are not sustainable, it would likely have been pointed out within the first few years of such audits.

In any case, the compensation plan of Amway is sustainable and can only work if there are movement of products. Even if all the movement of products were arranged in such a way where by the maximum amount of all bonuses would be paid out, there would still be surplus left for Amway Corporation itself for its retained earnings to be used for R&D etc..

Anyway, not being closed down yet does not mean that its legal as you correctly pointed it out, but for a scam to have been around for the past 52 going 53 years and having to prove its case over and over again for that long a period of time that it has a system that can work and is legitimate is truly insanely hard to accomplish, unless of course it actually is legal, and sustainable etc.

Hope I don't end up being unclear or ungrammatical with the long sentences. XD

I do appreciate the respect you give to fellow commenters though. =)

Oh and I found the video below does share many insightful points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZiw15VgWoI

quixtarisacult said...

Weijie...

You seem to think that the Amway Scam's longevity somehow makes it legit, profitable, respectable, etc.. What you fail to recognize is that Amway and most any MLM relies on new investors, new recruits, new adherents. Amway has acted more like a meat grinder. The losers leave the 'game' while the newbies take their place, all piling up loses. It is much the same way a 3-Card Monte game operates. Amway recruits not distributors, but people who want to believe in the Amway myths, and who in the end become frustrated and fall out after losing, er spending and investing time. Amway's cult initiators profit each and every time one of these so called 'business owners' makes a purchase, but do these erstwhile business people--who generally self consume their own inventory?

I have seen the cartoon. It seems to make the 'tape-speak' argument that says nearly all things are some form of pyramid scheme or another. Things like Social Security, or your job. I just don't buy into that line of reasoning. I do believe in the axiom that 'nothing ventured--nothing gained', but there are good ventures and insane ventures, with MLM's falling into the insane category.

You are free to believe in them if you so desire. I'd suggest some type of marketing scheme where actual product can and does get retailed. Something more like Avon. Steer clear of Amway, who's products are designed and priced to be unsellable (except to the suckers who sign on as 'distributors').

Weijie said...

I don't think that just because they can last means that they are legit. But this industry is not one that have some special concession where people do not probe too deeply, unlike certain things like religion, etc. So being able to be around for half a century should count for something.
[The basis of which I think they are legit is based more on the compensation plan which I have pointed out previously that I've found it to be sustainable for both the corporation and distributors. Essentially it very similar to most insurance companies too, but with tangible products instead of financial services.]

Moreover, I find that the impression Amway products aren't being retailed to be way too outlandish. There is a genuine demand for good quality products and Amway products does fulfil that role. In any case, retail profits is but just a part of the compensation plan and not the main bulk of it, so it won't be surprising if not everyone focus a lot on sales, but having a healthy (however small) client/retail base is necessary to qualify for many of the Amway bonuses.

Amway does have actual products, and they are being retailed to retail clients as well as being consumed by distributors. [At least from my own experience and those of my team and mentors -> which may not count for much as 'hard evidence', but at least I've seen a system where it can be sustainable and duplicatable.]

Anyway, the cartoon is not saying that there are many 'pryamid schemes' XD, its simply pointing out that in many areas, its few people at the top and many at the bottom as an organizational structure. The difference between those and an Amway's structure is that there isn't a maximum cap of the number of people that can progress and advance to the next level, unlike most companies where by unless there is a huge growth, new positions above you won't likely open up without people leaving etc..

Lastly, I believe it takes quite a genius to lose money in Amway, in most countries, most of the products you buy comes with a money back guarantee, meaning if one don't find it satisfactory in any way, one can simply return it to Amway and get a refund within certain periods like 90 days, even the registration fee has money back within a certain period of time in most regions Amway operates in.

quixtarisacult said...

Weijie...

We could probably debate this forever, which I don't plan on doing. You seem to make some rather incorrect assumptions about the Amway company. First, they are a private company, and therefore, do not make their financial information public, nor are they required to. They are not a publicly traded company.

You mention that there is a money back guarantee. That may be true, but when a supposed 'distributor' buys these products for self consumption--not retail sales--the 'distributor' is consuming his or her own inventory. This results in a business loss. All other expenses--like buying the 'tools' and paying for all other 'overhead' is also an expense of the business that these so called businessmen must absorb. I failed to mention the cost of attending the myriad 'functions' which are an additional expense of operating 'your own business.'

My friend and author David Brear describes what actually happens to these 'core' Amway adherents as the 'financial holocaust'. Many sworn testimonials exist describing how devotees of the Amway cult lose in the thousands of dollars. Possibly you should read the blog of Dr. Robert Fitzpatrick: False Profits Blog.

Amway portrays itself as a legit marketing company with a multilevel marketing plan. They in actuality have very few actual retail customers, and it is the cult believers that buy the 'PV' values each and every month to stay 'active' in the 'dream' of getting rich in the Amway business.

Weijie, you seem like an intelligent person. If you are already involved, I'd still continue to research and find out what this 'bad business' has done for others. If you feel satisfied that all is above board and that you can make money in Amway, then by all means "Go for it!"

Anonymous said...

Let me first say that Amway is a legit company with great products and affiliations with hundreds of other legit corporations here in the US and abroad.

The reason more people don't succeed in this business is because most uplines doom them from the get go. I recently attended a meeting and stayed for a "training" after the meeting. The person conducting the meeting suggested that all aspects of one's life be consulted upline from buying a car to dating and selecting a mate. Unbelievable.

It's a business, and if people treated it as such, more would have a chance.

quixtarisacult said...

anonymous...

Saying that it is a business doesn't in my mind legitimize anything. Organized crime has been hiding behind so called legitimate business for some time.

It might be possible to blame 'uplines' for failure in the Amway business, but that failure comes more from products that are effectively priced as to be unsellable to a retail market from the start, where nearly all supposed 'distributors' must become the only real 'customers'. A business that consumes its own stock is a losing business.

Uplines effectively keep a secondary pyramid scheme operating. Surely you understand how the tool scam works?

Diamond3 said...

Whoever started this blog I am assuming had to be an IBO at some point and quit the business and comes up with reasons why Amway is a cult and blames Amway for their own lack of work ethic. If you knew anything, IBOs do NOT work for Amway, Amway is the debt free, multi Billion dollar company that provides distribution for the products and has been around for over 50 years. There is NO cult and there is absolutely no way a company could be around and debt free for over 50 years if it was "scam". This kind of crap disgusts me. If you KNEW anything about business, you would know that pyramids are HIGHLY illegal and Amway is closely followed by the FTC. It is a performace based business and you can pass the person that sponsored you if you do MORE than them. Instead of writing ridiculous blogs about how this business doesn't work, do some legit research and get your facts straight.

quixtarisacult said...

Diamond3...

You sure have been oversold on Amway. Isn't it your money that keeps the Amway Cult Initiators out of debt? I'll bet that can't be said for all the suckers that cough up their PV month to month to stay in the the scheme.

khairul044 said...


Ever hear of franchises? you pay money to a HUGE company to operate under their name and sell their products and services. where have we seen this before?

quixtarisacult said...

khairul044: I want to remind readers that Amway isn't considered a business whereby the participants expect to make a profit. Person's attempting to write off all their overhead are met with an incredulous truth that the IRS will not allow these write-offs. The IRS has likened the Amway business to having a hobby. At least franchises are operated with the expectation that will be made in accordance with accepted accounting procedures.

Tamiko Blackford said...

Savvy ideas ! Just to add my thoughts , if your company is requiring a a form , my business came across a blank form here http://pdf.ac/aRb0v8.